this is a real tragic story, and this is america. and we've got to fight any attempts to attack workers and attack retirees who have given their lives. given their lives to the service and the service of the city rather than -- rather than attacking them, we've got to make sure they can retire in dignity. and that's what we're fighting about. that's what we're fighting about. we're not only fighting about this in detroit, but let me tell you something, chris. if it happens in detroit, it's going to happen in other major urban areas across the country. we're not saying that there's not a crisis, that there's not an economic crisis in detroit and other cities across the country. what we are saying is don't scapegoat work who are have given their lives to public service. >> that point, i think, is a really interesting one because, again, as a labor reporting in the private sector, this happens a fair amount. companies will enter into bankruptcy and it's a very convenient means of ditching big pension obligations because they can go befo